On The Vapidity And Narcisism Of Rebecca Watson, And In Praise Of DJ Grothe

Vapid; adjective 1.  lacking or having lost life, sharpness, or flavor; insipid; flat; 2. without liveliness or spirit; dull or tedious: a vapid party; vapid conversation.

I know it is against the rules to say anything critical of She Who Must Be Obeyed, Rebecca Watson of Skepchick.org.  I understand that many people in the fractured mess that used to be the Skeptics Movement consider her word to have the force of law, and that anything other than obsequious groveling at her feet is tantamount to blasphemy.    I will chance it, though.  I will take the risk of being burned at the stake–or at the very least being burned in effigy–for my transgressions.   I have never been one to follow the rules (at least most of them) and I am a long-time blasphemer.

Rebecca Watson has now authored a post that is unparalleled in vapidity and narcissism, informing us that she will not be going to TAM this year, or apparently in any future year as long as the new bugbear of the Skepchicks, DJ Grothe, is in charge.  How nice.  How important.  Rebecca speaks, and the entire skeptical world is supposed to stand in amazement at the power of her logic, her prose, and the courage she is showing by standing up to the Skepchicks’ Great Satan.  What a bunch of bull.

Admittedly, Rebecca has done a lot for the JREF and for TAM.  I would say that the relationship has been mutualistic,  and that she has gotten a lot out of the (now severed, it seems) relationship.  To her post.

Rebecca admits (begrudgingly, I think) that under DJ Grothe’s influence the percentage of women speakers at TAM has increased to about 50%.  She also admits (in passing) that (again under DJ’s leadership) TAM stood at the vanguard in instituting a sexual harassment policy at a major skeptical event.  Of course, no good deed goes unpunished.  Because, according to Rebecca:

I do not feel welcomed or safe and I disagree strongly with the recent actions of the JREF president, DJ Grothe.

What, you might ask, did DJ do that was so wrong?  It must have been something pretty heinous to get such a reaction.  It was, in fact,  a comment made by DJ to a blog post.  The comment is very similar to the comment left on this blog a couple of posts back, and here is what DJ said that engendered Rebecca’s disapprobation:

Last year we had 40% women attendees, something I’m really happy about. But this year only about 18% of TAM registrants so far are women, a significant and alarming decrease, and judging from dozens of emails we have received from women on our lists, this may be due to the messaging that some women receive from various quarters that going to TAM or other similar conferences means they will be accosted or harassed. (This is misinformation. Again, there’ve been on reports of such harassment the last two TAMs while I’ve been at the JREF, nor any reports filed with authorities at any other TAMs of which I’m aware.) We have gotten emails over the last few months from women vowing never to attend TAM because they heard that JREF is purported to condone child-sex-trafficking, and emails in response to various blog posts about JREF or me that seem to suggest I or others at the JREF promote the objectification of women, or that we condone violence or threats of violence against women, or that they believe that women would be unsafe because we feature this or that man on the program. I think this misinformation results from irresponsible messaging coming from a small number of prominent and well-meaning women skeptics who, in trying to help correct real problems of sexism in skepticism, actually and rather clumsily themselves help create a climate where women — who otherwise wouldn’t — end up feeling unwelcome and unsafe, and I find that unfortunate.

Seems pretty reasonable to me, but not to Her Highness, as she says: “DJ was blaming women skeptics for creating an unwelcoming environment.”  Um, no he wasn’t.  Not even close.  Not even in the same universe.  He is saying the some people of prominence are exaggerating the scale of the problem, which creates a false impression of the environment at TAM.  That’s fair game, Your Worship.  And while I think that sexual harassment is a problem, I think that Your Grace and Your Grace’s ilk have seriously exaggerated the scale of the problem by several orders of magnitude in a narcissistic effort to make this about you.  Everything always has to be about the Queen Of Skepticism–long may she reign!  If it’s not about Her Majesty, it’s not worth talking about.

But surely, gentle reader, you are saying to yourself that there must be more to DJ’s crimes than that.  Indeed.  DJ had the temerity to be anything other than the obsequious groveler Her Eminence is used to when reading the comments to Skepchick:


Rebecca: Off the top of my head, your quote in USA Today might suggest that the freethought or skeptics movements are unsafe for women. This is from the article:

“I thought it was a safe space,” Watson said of the freethought community. “The biggest lesson I have learned over the years is that it is not a safe space. . . ”


Apparently it is tantamount to treason to suggest that maybe Rebecca was not entirely accurate or fair in this assessment.  Not just treason, but High Treason.  Because, you see, here is what Her Ladyship had to say about that:

Over the past several years, I’ve been groped, grabbed, touched in other nonconsensual ways, told I can expect to be raped, told I’m a whore, a slut, a bitch, a prude, a dyke, a cunt, a twat, told I should watch my back at conferences, told I’m too ugly to be raped, told I don’t have a say in my own treatment because I’ve posed for sexy photos, told I should get a better headshot because that one doesn’t convey how sexy I am in person, told I deserve to be raped – by skeptics and atheists. All by skeptics and atheists. Constantly.

And did what about it?  Apparently nothing.  Did you name names? Apparently not.  Not even for the cad who spoke to you in the elevator in Ireland at 4:00 a.m.  Did you report any transgressions occurring at events to organizers?  Apparently not, even though this might be the only way to protect other women from being subjected to the same fate.  As for being groped or touched in non consensual ways, did you consider calling the police?  Because that kind of behavior is most likely a crime.  And such crimes are most likely committed by repeat offenders.  And you could have maybe actually done something to protect other women by calling the local constabulary.  Did you do that?  Apparently not, because you make no mention of it in your post.  Instead you blame DJ.  And just talk about it in USA Today and on skepchick.org without actually doing anything?  All talk and no action.  As opposed to DJ, who is all action, and who has actually done things to help women at conferences, like having 50% women speakers.

Rebecca also faults DJ for having a different memory of an event than someone else.  Shame on you, DJ!  Shame on you for not having a hard-drive for a memory and having the gall to tell someone that you remember differently.  At any rate, that whole canard about DJ “gaslighting” Ashley Miller has already been thoroughly debunked, explained, and resolved.  Apparently not to the satisfaction of our Grand Poobah, though.

Yes, Rebecca is going to take her ball and go home:

But officially, there will be no Skepchick presence at TAM this year or for the foreseeable future, and if we raise money to send women to future conferences, we will choose a different conference.

And to this, I say good riddance (only to Her Excellency,  as I am sure the scholarship recipients would have been good additions to the TAM community).  Rebecca and the Skepchicks have really become vapid of late.  They have not published anything of interest for almost a year, and have been sitting on their laurels spewing out lifeless drivel.  If there is anything that we can use less of, it is lifeless drivel.

Oh, and one more thing.  I find this next coincidence curious.  Look at this series of events:

On May 30 at 2:43 p.m. Greg Laden at freethought blogs posted that he thought DJ should resign.

On May 30 at 3:42 p.m. there is the following comment to Greg’s blog:

Daniel Finckesays:

He could be replaced by a woman.

Can we nominate Rebecca?

And now on June 1 (unknown time), we have Rebecca totally trashing DJ and (we all know it is the case) trying to get him fired as President of the JREF.  Perhaps she has a successor in mind.  Food for thought.



  • http://www.skepticcanary.com Tom Williamson

    Agreed. I think TAM has a much better chance of being an actual skeptics conference without Watson’s presense.

  • Not A Chance

    It’s also worth pointing out that with all the mentions of policies, the SkepchickCon didn’t have one until yesterday – http://events.skepchick.org/2012/05/31/skepchickcon-harassment-policy/

    • admin

      That is a very interesting fact. So much for the Skepchicks being in the vanguard.

    • Eshto

      HAHAHAHA!!! That. Is. Hilarious.

  • Loopy

    Marry me!

  • Christian Walters

    A post which starts with calling Rebecca “she who must be obeyed” and ends with a conspiracy theory about her trying to take D.J.’s job is accusing anyone of vapidity? Awesome.

    And praising D.J.’s mishandling of this mess is equally awesome. Nice work!

    • Aaron

      That’s a fairly lively insinuation, not vapid at all. Quite spicy, really. I think you need to check the definition of “vapid”. It’s at the top of the page, for future reference. You could say it was groundless, baseless, absurd, but definitely not vapid.

      • admin

        I could not disagree more. Rebecca and the rest of the Skepchicks have become repetitious, predictable, and boring. Rebecca’s boycott of TAM was predictable, as was her need to create a new boogeyman. Last year she picked Richard Dawkins for trivial reasons and sat in the Del Mar in a sulk. This year she found DJ as her nemesis, for similar and trivial reasons.

    • Eshto

      There isn’t a mess except what she’s inventing in that crazy, crazy little brain of hers.

      Also, can someone tell me, what the hell does Watson DO? She’s like Paris Hilton. I hear her blathering a lot (despite my best efforts to avoid she and everyone at FTB). I hear the lecturing an awful lot of people on concepts that seem to be related to sociology, history, gender studies…

      Do any of these people actually have any qualifications? Relevant academic degrees? Do they… um… DO anything, other then sit in front of their computer chairs and complain about people offering them coffee?

      Just wondering.

      • masakari

        Well, let’s see… Rebecca Watson posed nude in a calendar, Paris Hilton made a few pornos.

        • http://www.twitter.com/JohnDurandal JohnDurandal

          Wait, the raging feminist actually posed nude for a magazine?

          • BayAreaGuy

            Yes! That’s how SkepChick got started! They wanted to raise funds to send women to TAM, so they got together and posed semi-nude (naughty bits carefully covered) for a calendar and sold them online and at TAM and other conferences.

            This is the hypocrisy of Watson complaining about the objectification of women. She and the other SkepChicks have helped to create that atmosphere in this and other ways. But, if you point this out, then she’ll accuse you of “blaming the victim,” or of “slut shaming.” You can’t win!

            It’s also interesting to me that, in the aforementioned announcement that she won’t be attending TAM, Watson calls them “autographed calendars,” carefully avoiding calling them what they REALLY were…pin-up calendars.

    • http://i.imgur.com/jPBXP.jpg franc

      @Christian Walters – “Vapid” is about as polite as you can get. She’s an vacuous. ill-read airhead who believes she is entitled to a gravy train of booze ups and parties at the godless/skeptic community expense, all while doing little more than spitting venom at the same community the whole way. Her only skills are in propaganda, self-promotion and smear campaigning. She not only portrays our community as one of mindless, selfish imbeciles, but one of vicious malice on par with pro-lifers. She poisons everything she touches.

  • Sortish

    Cue angry Skepchick fanboy/girl rabble in 5…4…3…

  • http://securityedition.com Dean Cameron

    She’s awful.

    If she knows about child sex trafficking and rapes and hasn’t reported them, she is doubly awful. If she’s using those accusations to increase her brand, triple the awful.

    • http://about.me/tai_fung Tai Fung

      Hey, is that Dean Cameron as in “Chainsaw?” “Nigerian Spam Scam?”

  • http://www.bynkii.com/ John C. Welch

    Wait, SkepChickCon, the queen’s own show didn’t institute an anti-harrassment policy until YESTERDAY?


    Seriously, this was inevitable. Queen Becky is only happy when, as you say, it’s all about her. Dawkins and the Elevator were played out, look, a new fauxtroversy.

    Although I must take issue with your insinuation that her and laden cooked up a plot together. While she’s certainly clever enough to do it, Laden? Really? Dude couldn’t clever his way out of a paper bag with a pair of scissors named “clever”, made by the clever scissor company of Clevertown.

    He’s remarkably dumb, and only useful for when his “betters” in the movement are out of toilet paper and need a cleanin’.

    • YouKnowMe

      Oh, I couldn’t agree with you more. She is a horrible excuse for a human being, but she’s smart enough. Laden is a nasty, moronic idiot. I’m still almost certain she invented her elevator “ordeal,” because if all that other harassment she’s bringing up now actually happened, she could have used one of those incidents as an example and then everyone would be behind her (even though not reporting that kind of behavior *harms* women, and anonymous reporting is always an option). Hell, she could have even made-up such a real incident of harassment because we know she has no problem with consistent intellectual dishonesty and public lies. But then there would be compassion, swift action, no Skepchick blog hits, no monetized Watsyn YouTube vids, and no money or self-promotion for the I’m-no-longer-the-sexy-skepchick-so-don’t-hug-me-even-though-I’m-wearing-a-pin-that-tells-you-to-do-ao-Watsyn.

  • charles

    >she will not be going to TAM this year, or apparently in any future year as long as the new bugbear of the Skepchicks, DJ Grothe, is in charge

    She won’t? HOORAH!!! REIGN LONG, DJ!!!

  • Christian The Skeptical Atheist

    Even in the beginning, when there was still some sanity in that camp, I never cared much for the whole Skepchick group. I never understand why people insist on separating themselves from a group that completely accepts them only to complain about not being accepted. Now all Rebecca seems to do is complain about imagined enemies and evil men who will not admit that all they want to do all day is dehumanize and assault women.

  • http://www.younghipandconservative.com Michael

    This sounds like one of the best TAMs ever now, without having to sacrifice a huge chunk to satisfy Watson’s political lectures. I really regret my decision not to go now.

    • YouKnowMe

      Yep, for every woman lost it’s two women gained. Count me in, along with my support for JREF.

  • http://about.me/tai_fung Tai Fung

    I don’t know who you are, but I love you. These are well-written, well-thought out entries. I particularly like that you do agree that there is a problem, but that you’re working towards a solution, as opposed to the crew of Skepchicks. I initially supported RW (and still do when it comes to her initial ElevatorGate response), but they let the power/high ground go to their heads, and things went crazy.

    My only criticism of what you’ve written is that, in my humble and not informed opinion, is that alcohol intake makes up a much bigger proportion of the problems than I think we’re noting. I suspect that the social hours in the bars near the TAMs, or during receptions, play a bigger role in people getting looser with their inhibitions and judgement. But that’s just my hypothesis.

    Keep up the great posts otherwise!

    P.S. I don’t “love you,” in a “I’d like to secks you” kinda way. Just the “love” as in enjoy reading thing. Nothing physical about my “I love you.” Please don’t sue. 😉

    • admin

      I completely agree about the alcohol issue, but I don’t want to make the posts too long, and it was getting to my max. The Del Mar lounge at TAM late at night can get a little wild on occasion. Alcohol is one of the greatest causes of evil in the world, after money and love.

    • http://thetimchannel.wordpress.com The Tim Channel

      I agree. I think I noted the lateness of hour and ingestion of alcohol in reference to the EG incident when I posted about it. I also made reference (in comments I think) to her just being recently divorced, and that maybe having an influence on her view of males at this moment? I was told it was irresponsible to speculate on her motives. I was also told it was irresponsible not to take her phantasms seriously.

      Lately, I’ve been hearing from a lot of these Girlyban operatives (thanks Twitter!) on how irresponsible it is not to take wild, unsupported and unsubstantiated claims of sexual abuse without evidence at face value. Is this some kind of reverse psyche-out test? These girls are trying to see how far they can push an organization based on empiricism and rationality by sheer force of emotion alone. Suffice it to say that WE ARE NOT GOING TO JUST TAKE YOUR WORD FOR IT. BOLD CLAIMS REQUIRE BOLD EVIDENCE. An idea you would think they had already embraced.


      • YouKnowMe

        What was that complaint she made about men not wanting women in the skeptical circle because women are illogical? Are the SkepCHICKS setting out to prove that women every negative stereotype about women there is? Because I am a woman, and I find their behavior irrational and offensive (unless the goal is more attention for Watsyn, which it probably is). Women are not as stupid or fraidy-cat as Watsyn portrays them to be; there are plenty of intelligent and articulate women around who don’t need to show off their titties at TAMs so that men can stuff money in their bras, and who can and do make their careers on intelligence and skillfulness alone. And there are many women who think for themselves instead of blindly following some faux leader or imaginary god.

  • Darren

    Oh, Drat. I guess, since Rebecca has decided to stop attending TAM, I will have to withdraw from my usual claim that she has contributed nothing of substance to the skeptic community.

  • SkepticAtheist

    Any harassment or assault at a convention should be reported and/or stopped immediately by any witnesses. Every person who witness such acts would hopefully have the moral conviction to report it or intervene.

    The police can’t do anything if it’s not reported. If harassment is reported, the police will ask the harasser to leave. If the harasser refuses to obey the police’s warning, the police officer can make the arrest. If the harasser obeys, the victim could still get a restraining order. After the restraining order, if the harasser violates it, then he/she could be arrested. I asked a friend who is a police officer about this earlier today, after explaining this whole situation.

    People want to blame D.J. Grothe, but what is he supposed to do? People complain about “blaming the victim” when others ask why didn’t they report it. It’s not blaming the victim for the abuse committed against them, it’s blaming the victim for not doing something about it and letting the harasser get away, who will abuse someone else. And how can we tell what happens if they don’t report it to the authorities? It could just be hearsay.

    Rebecca Watson is nothing but a religious radical feminist bully, who makes a career from being a professional victim. The atheist community is better off without her, and her dumb allies at freefromthoughtblogs (aka. the baboon boards).

    • http://coffeelovingskeptic.com Tony Ryan – Coffee Loving Skeptic

      Apologies for what seems like a plug, but I’ve been getting abuse from her for ages. (since I wrote a series of posts, culminating in this: http://coffeelovingskeptic.com/?p=768 ).

      However, Not long ago, I emailed RW to call a truce, and tried to be friendly, polite, humble, and sincere. All I got in response was more abuse, and a few tweets to her sycophants about me.

      Nice woman.

  • Tony Ryan

    Watson not being there makes me more likely to go.


    Because she’s arrogant, less than intellectual, and hijacks any talk/panel she’s invited to and tuns it into The Skepchick Agenda.

    A simply not very nice person, who doesn’t speak for the community, but for herself.

  • http://coffeelovingskeptic.com Tony Ryan – Coffee Loving Skeptic

    On a side note, she actually dishes out abuse/insults/adhoms far quicker than they seem to flood in.

    So, we can add hypocrite to the list also.

  • http://elevatorgate.wordpress.com Jim Halpert

    Could someone please read this post out loud, as a podcast, mp3, soundcloud post or YouTube video?

    Why? To make it more accessible for the reading impaired.

    • admin

      If anyone wants to do this, it is fine with me. I have a very screechy voice with an ugly accent, so it wont be me.

      • http://coffeelovingskeptic.com Tony Ryan – Coffee Loving Skeptic

        I don’t mind doing it.

        This is what I sound like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bWH_NPy6Uw

        It’d just be audio though.

        • admin

          Go for it! Please link back to the blog post. Cheers.


          • http://coffeelovingskeptic.com Tony Ryan – Coffee Loving Skeptic

            I’ve read the post aloud, and recorded it, I’ll post back once it’s been uploaded.

          • http://coffeelovingskeptic.com Tony Ryan – Coffee Loving Skeptic
  • Pingback: Rebecca Watson – vapid, narcissistic, VACUOUS « elevatorgate

  • http://thetimchannel.wordpress.com The Tim Channel

    I have nothing to fear from Rebecca Watson and her hoary band of American Girlyban. I predicted this behavior would increase in my original American Girlyban post about Elevator Guy. I won’t even link whore the post because it ranks so high in Google.

    I mentioned ‘jumped the shark’ in a follow up post to the Girlyban phenomena just the other day.

    This pretty much seals the deal. The shark is fully jumped. It also ought to firmly establish me as the most preeminent prophet of the New Atheist movement. Somebody call a contractor. We can finally take down the lighted make-up mirrors in the unisex bathrooms at AtheistHQ.


  • http://thetimchannel.wordpress.com The Tim Channel

    One last thing. Last year she was crapping all over Richard Dawkins. This year it is DJ, TAM and Randi. Look, if she wants to form her own Girlyban Coven,(and it looks like that is the case), then more power to her. Please stop inviting her to speak at events she doesn’t feel safe at, specially when she isn’t qualified to speak on any subject other than her own imagined victimhood. They have women support groups she would be a smash at. Don’t get in the way of her success in THAT forum.

  • Pingback: Rebecca Watson: Why I won’t be at TAM this year « elevatorgate

  • CommanderTuvok

    There was an incredible amount of misinformation going up all over the place at FTB the other day. DJ politely corrected the information, only for him to be accused of all manner of things simply because they wanted him there to grovel, and not to establish facts.

    FTB exhibit all the bad things that skeptics and atheists rally against, especially the logical fallacies. Opheliar Benson is particulary rank in this regard.

    Anyway, let’s hear it for ERV. Sometimes OTT, sometimes childish, sometimes sardonic, but by jingo, did we call it right with regard to Rebecca Watson and Myers et al, all that time ago.

  • Pingback: In which I rejoice: The Rebecca Watson-fueled implosion « For the Sake of Science

  • Cain

    Rebecca Watson is the Gloria Allred of skepticism.

  • satu dua tiga

    Barbra Streisand Effect…?

  • Pingback: Hyper-skepticism: The New Buzzword | insecular

  • Tkmlac

    So glad I’m finding people willing to stand up the her. She convinced me to be afraid of reddit. Reddit, of all things. She made it sound like r/atheism was as bad as 4chan. She’s creepy. And have you seen how PZ Meyers jumps at every chance to defend her no matter what? I used to like that guy, but now I just feel sorry for his wife; her husband has a huge crush or something.

    • http://coffeelovingskeptic.com Tony Ryan – Coffee Loving Skeptic

      I hope, but I’m not holding my breath, that RW has ‘jumped the shark’ so to speak, and will begin to fade away through lack of credibility.

      Remind me again, what is it that makes her a specialist to give talks on atheism? Apart from self-promoting herself as such?

      • YouKnowMe

        She’s a woman and once she chases the rest of us away, you’ll need at least one to stand up to the men. She will be THE ONE. She already predicted it in her Dawkins attack post.

    • http://thetimchannel.wordpress.com The Tim Channel

      PZ and Matt Dillahunty have both saddened me with their pliability in regards to believing this nonsense when they are so stalwart against other irrational belief systems. Enjoy.

  • Cailin

    I had not planned to attend TAM but now that I know Watson will not be there, I think it will be much improved, so I think that I will attend, after all. I am seriously sick of this drama queen, her hypocrisy, her arrogance, her stale routine of shrieking and self-aggrandizement and the weird brand of ‘victimhood’ that she touts.

  • http://thetimchannel.wordpress.com The Tim Channel

    I sincerely hope that DJ won’t be cowered into some kind of faux apology because he has nothing to apologize for. The American Girlyban has been calling me every name in the book for being so rude as to point out that I think Rebecca Watson is full of crap. I haven’t harassed or threatened to rape anybody. I don’t go to the conferences. Hell, I don’t even have a garage. You can call home and ask my wife. h/t Uneasy Rider. Enjoy.

    • John D

      DJ already made a disgusting apology to Becci of FfTBlogs. He even told her she was smart and funny. Burp… excuse me… I burped up a bit of vomit into my mouth just then.

  • ginckgo

    “Food for thought.”

    Sounds a lot like O’Reilly’s favourite phrase “I’m just saying…”

  • http://thetimchannel.wordpress.com The Tim Channel

    Skepchick is really a skepdick.

    There is a whole new branch of religion being formed around Rebecca and the Girlyban Apologetic Society is said to be quite the happening place these days.



  • http://godlessradio.net Reap Paden

    “I’ve been groped, grabbed, touched in other nonconsensual ways, told I can expect to be raped, told I’m a whore, a slut, a bitch, a prude, a dyke, a cunt, a twat, told I should watch my back at conferences, told I’m too ugly to be raped, told I don’t have a say in my own treatment because I’ve posed for sexy photos, told I should get a better headshot because that one doesn’t convey how sexy I am in person, told I deserve to be raped – by skeptics and atheists. All by skeptics and atheists. Constantly.”
    I can’t believe any woman would allow this to be the case and not take immediate action to make sure the person responsible is dealt with accordingly. For a woman to allow anyone to treat them in the manner described by Rebecca and not report it is incredibly irresponsible. I have a daughter I would prefer she not be a victim of some idiot because Rebecca can’t figure out how to report a crime. It seems she should be smart enough to figure it out. If she behaves this way when there is an obvious threat to not only hers but others safety then there more than likely are other instances of lessor importance she neglects to act upon also. This would not indicate she is qualified for any type of leadership position.
    I have dealt with DJ on several occasions doing my podcasts and being involved in the Bay Area Skeptics. He has proven to be a intelligent respectful guy who has everyone’s interests in mind from what I have seen. He certainly has never demonstrated the type of character Rebecca describes.
    I wonder what Rebecca thinks is going to happen when she paints such a horrible picture of the convention landscape and acts as if there is no cure. She should be writing about who she told about the crime and how they dealt with the person who committed it. She would be educating other women by example and anyone who was considering assaulting Rebecca at a later date may reconsider that plan.

    • The Devil’s Towelboy

      This is more ex post facto embellishment – funny how she never mentioned this with the initial EG hysterics. The elevator guy fairy tale has developed amazingly over time too – new details kept getting added. They crap on about “always name names” – but never provide any kind of actual evidence. It’s all hearsay and chinese whispers. When really pushed into a corner, the best they can come up with is anonymous blog comment drive-by examples. Contrast that with Grothe who actually makes an attempt to get realistic data. They are superstitious villagers – just a roving lynch mob.

  • Let me get this straight:

    First they try to kick out Richard Dawkins. Then they hound out ERV. Now it’s Grothe.

    Fuck. This. Shit. This is not a movement worth having.

    • Soapy Smith

      Who is ERV?

  • The Devil’s Towelboy

    Grothe’s “misogyny” has been quantified –


    No surprise the baboon’s have avoided looking into it.

  • Pingback: On The Vapidity And Narcisism Of Rebecca Watson « Geoff's Blog

  • Alexis

    God what a bunch of putred cowards, seriously im a woman and when i want a drink from the esso and its late i go right round there at midnight.

    “oh i dont feel safe” oh boo hoo thats just playing the victim for attention, and i get that i fantasize about it too and its fun in bed but this is the whole god damn world your affecting so stop lying and chaosing national and perhaps global chaos, its a brightly lit seminar with hundreds to thousands of women, indoors in a public place dont be god damn ridiculous.

    Also Its 3rd nationalism, then racism then homosexuality haters at the top that are the greatest problems on the prejudice scale, sure there is a little sexism from BOTH sides but its hardly that bad, i have been through true agony in life and its not some guy slapping your bottom and whistling at you, you have clearly been living in a dream land if you think that.

    Everyone goes through pain in life some people go through far more than others can even begin to imagine or fathom so dont think some personal little generalizations against you is suddenly the new enslavement of female kind its not and this whole movement is ridiculous and been blown way out of proportion.

    Some boys slapped my bottom in school basicly all through it about 1-5 times every two weeks and ONE guy called me a stupid bitch when i almost cut him off driving (was admittedly my fault was on my first date with a guy and i was driving him so i was nervous) and I have literally never had any other negativity towards me in my life because i was female.

    Whatever other agony i went through in my life was just bad luck and evil bastard people but it wasnt directed to me because i was female it was directed to me because they were assholes from men and women.

  • http://coffeelovingskeptic.com Tony Ryan – Coffee Loving Skeptic

    Rebecca Watson spreading lies about ME!!!! and simultaneously, the abuse she receives.
    I don’t mind an argument, but I won’t have people believe lies about me.

  • nate

    The reason people go to Vegas and drink is too get in to a little trouble and liven things up. If I went to Vegas and it was a boring science conference I would be disappointing. RW needs to stop being jealous of people having a good time.

  • Tony Ryan

    Not only that, but PZ has now devoted an entire blog of his own (read by goodness knows how many times more than mine) misrepresenting the issue as if it’s about HIM and being blocked on twitter. Face…….palm.


  • CC

    I would like to respectfully request that this post please pass the moderato filter because:

    1. The topic is 100% relevant

    2. It brings humor to the situation on both sides of this kerfuffle, and for goodness sakes, we could all use a humorous break amongst the flying insults

    3. The beneficiaries are a real live working scientist trying to pay back their student loans, and the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute’s Jimmy Fund, which goes toward research to help children with cancer.

    So whether you think the subject of sexual harassment at TAM is valid or vapid, whether you think Rebecca is heroic or hackneyed, here are some ways to sport your view or just make people laugh.


    Tam will be very interesting this year.

    • CC

      *typo: I meant moderator, not moderato. I don’t think that Italian music tempo has much to do with this thread.

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  • http://geekpotpie.tumblr.com heili skrimsli

    I am really turned off of any movement in which my identity has to be attached 100% to my gender. My skepticism and atheism have never, ever been about which set of genitals I possess. The skepchick mantra that all skeptics and atheists who happen to be women should either distinguish themselves as ‘women skeptics’ or indeed, ‘skepchicks’ is disgusting and insulting to the premise of equality.

    Rebecca Watson doesn’t speak for me.

    • http://coffeelovingskeptic.com Tony Ryan – Coffee Loving Skeptic

      Rebecca Watson doesn’t speak for anyone except herself, and those who choose to self-define as “skepchicks”. She’d do well to remember this before she cries off to the next white knight.

  • Padric O’Fish

    DJ’s only mistake was being too ready to capitulate to people like Rebecca Watson. It’s not our job to assure a 50% ratio of females at such conferences. If women don’t like science, reason, and logic, they can stay home.

  • MRAAlternate

    The official position of feminists is that you cannot ask a woman for a
    date anywhere: workplace – sexual harassment …. atheist convention –
    sexual harassment …. on the street/in a bar – practically rape …
    online dating profile – you’re going to be targeted and harassed by
    feminists for being a “Nice Guy.” The only apparent place it’s
    appropriate to speak to a woman is in church according to atheist

  • kfreed

    Rebecca Watson’s overly-publicized tale of woe over being asked to have coffeee in a hotel room at a conventon, even at 4:00 AM. is stupid beyond belief.

    I’ve experienced many an all-nighter having coffee with people I’ve recently met in order to continue an engaging discussion, includng men, without sex ever becoming an issue. I don’t necessarily assume that “coffee” means sex. But let’s face it, even if it did, so what? She said no, he said okay, the end. To portray herself as a victim over nothing is entirely self-serving. As far as I’m concerned, the woman is useless to the atheist/skeptic community, useless to the feminist community, and should probably seek therapy. Seems to me she set out to embarrass the hell out of everyone, including herself. Despicable.

    Female, Atheist, Feminist

    • thatangryguy

      I completely agree. I can’t wrap my mind around how petty, childish, and self-serving she is. She’s nothing but a professional victim. Furthermore, she claims to be a feminist, yet I’ve heard her say some horribly sexist and disparaging things about men. A true feminist would never do that. A true feminist fights for gender equality, for both sexes. She’s a fraud. No, she’s worse than a fraud, because she never actually DOES anything to combat sexism, other than play the victim card. I really cannot stand her.

      Of course, if she reads this, she’ll claim that the reason I’m saying these negative things about her is because I’m a woman-hating fascist nazi male pig. It couldn’t possibly be because of her hypocrisy and self-serving bullshit, could it?

      • kfreed

        “A true feminist fights for gender equality, for both sexes”

        On the contrary, the goal of feminism is to fight for women’s rights… particularly in a political climate under which we are witnessing the erosion of those rights under a coordinated assault instigated by the Religious Right under the Tea Party banner.

        I’m no more on board with the “Men’s Rights Movement” argument suggesting that feminists ought to be supporting their “cause” because I don’t believe the “men’s movement” is about supporting men. It’s designed to undermine the fight for women’s rights.

        The “men’s rights” movement is simply the RW/Tea Party Libertarian-driven secular counterpart to the Religious Right’s “religious freedom” to discriminate movement. I’ve spent enough time listening to both to note that the tea partying right is simply secularizing Religious Right arguments in order to create an underclass of subservient women and to use the power of the state to further that aim. Right-wing libertarians are more than happy to oblige them:

        “Anatomy of the War on Women: How the [Libertarian] Koch Brothers Are Funding the Anti-Choice Agenda”

        My problem with Rebecca Watson is that her behavior undermines both the atheist and feminist movements. I have no time for self-serving faux “victims” of any stripe, including those of the bogus “men’s rights movement.”
        (You’ve hit up the wrong liberal… my “bleeding” heart doesn’t overrule my mental capacity for critical thinking.)

        • samsquatch1

          LOL, I just I don’t even know where to begin with that comment. Pfft.

        • BigChief

          You sound more like a “Skepchick” than Rebecca does.

  • cewubaaca

    That article just gave me PTSD.

  • http://tonydoesasia.com ShenzhenTony

    I can’t believe I read this for the youtube recording 2 years ago!